until the housing bubble is burst. All the money locked up in
mortgages and mortgage payments is just too much of a burden for the
economy to flourish under.

There simply is no money left for anything else.

--
billb
Since time immemorial, the powerful have used religion to distract
the oppressed, to encourage them to focus on the next world so that
they will acquiesce to the injustices of this world. If you would
have your slaves remain docile, teach them hymns.

Not only that, but housing costs for the workingman are too high, when
the bubble pops and the workingman can start saving some money instead
of living from paycheck to paycheck, the economy will once more
rock'n'roll. A robust economy requires the average guy to feel like
he can get ahead by working harder, the way things are now the average
working guy is more concerned about financing his next lid of dope
than he is about working hard and getting ahead because he's been
taught that no matter how hard he works he'll never get ahead and as a
result his efforts go into misery-reduction instead of
wealth-building.

"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:4367DC59.9040902@prodigy.net...
then you need to tell the Feds. They think higher rates are reducing
inflation. Higher cost of money increases the cost of doing business
leading to higher prices and inflation until a recession occurs. Then
the Feds decrease interest rates to stimulate spending and investments.

I think the (US) economy will remain stagnant until there is a reasonably
competent foreign competitor to spur us into progress. Early 90's it was
japan people talked about might eat our lunch, so we were allowed good times
for a while to beat them off. Is there anyone ready to step up now?

"billb" <sevenoutpinball@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6d736$4367af6e$42f83947$27644@DIALUPUSA.NET.. .
Thats not incorrect. In SF bay area its tight,, because
rents and property costs for home owners is often over half
their income.

However when the bubble bursts, it will burst because of a
collapse and that will be nasty,

given the offshoring of US jobs US manufacturing will not be
the engine of recovery it was in the past... car sales and
poodle washing jobs will not suffice to produce a net *product
.... it is net product that is the bottom line of an economy,

When the net product dissapears (as in imported)... then the
support base for that ,engineering, building construction,
restaurants, all those services...evaporate...along with that
tax base.

as the tax base tanks, US govt cannot keep business alive by
purchasing unless it prints bogus 'money'...the current
condition.

that lands on its ass every time... particularly in the 5th
generation of a nation..that generation is corrupt and lazy...
collapse ensues. On a very very short time frame.

we are 3/4 into that collapse now. ... the rest of the way is
a very short putt.

What will turn it around? If we can dominate the rest of the
world with nuclear weapons, seize the worlds oil, and run more
of the worlds illicit drugs (the CI A via 'Air America' and
testified to before congress by a bunch of USAF, police runs
about 1/3 of the worlds illicit drugs now, that money is
laundered through US banks, and amounts to roughly half the US
*net domestic product in dollars. (not half the GrossDP).
want links to the USGAO an US senate testimony on those issues
and some book by the ex dir of the CIA Philip Agee?

www.fromthewilderness.com left margin, economic and drugs
links. many from the congressional record.

That will save us...for a while. maybe 10 years longer.

In that 10 years the rest of the world will mobilize against
us....covertly.. with biological, chemical, economic, some
nuclear dirty bomb, and infrastructure sabotage.... the
guerilla contingents of these nations (diavowed by them
naturally, but with plenty of funding and access to all this
stuff), will have no trouble what so ever putting the US
economy into complete collapse.

What comes from that? 80% reduced government... no more
waste.. and less corruption.. the nation will rise from those
ashes but no longer as a world super power. How long will
that take?

2 years to intial nasty deep recession or depression
5 or 10 years to collapse
50 years to 'recover'
another 50 years to full recovery.

Who will make it in the mean time? The utterly corrupt and
criminals. (top 5%). Government employees will have jobs
mostly.

Repair people will keep from starving..

the rest, 50% or more will eat beans, get thin.. and be in
poor health, like most of india and china lives today.

But not to worry by the end of the century the US will be
doing reasonably well again.... depending on how homeland
security works out along the lines total control of the
population... the recovered US will be as different as it was
from 1905 to 2005.. almost unrecongiseable.

so plan for change all along the way...accelerated change..
vastly accelerated as defined now by global warming and how
rising sea levels and vastly stronger hurricanes etc will
impact all of this quite dynamically.

All the average person will really have his his or her talent,
wits and health... its is working and living in US
corporations that mitigates againsts all of those. the
premier skill set in the future beyond these basics will be
learning how to cope with this mess now...and the changes that
will sweep through as collapse proceeds.

My advice... either cave in and become mindless if thats all
the energy you have or if a family is depending on your
paycheck possibly.... or develop world class social skills, be
able to schoomze and duck and dodge without licking any books
or have the criminality of the corporation agravate you... a
tall order. But Ive seen a few survive that way... 1% at the
most maybe.

Or become self employed. the best option. ..not easy but with
persistence, you dont have compromise, you can make money..and
you cant be fired by an idiot.

Oh yes...and health.. another tall order given the
manufactured food we eat these days.. one can learn better
options but the truly best take extensive research and
understanding of human and food biology...and neurotoxin
issues, agravated by working in corporations (who's charter,
legally, is to make money the next quarter, regardless of any
human issue at all... death...toxin generations, global
warming or even the long term interests of the corporation)

the movie 'the corporation' covers all that.. its very
good...funny too. ITs probably on CD or video tape by now.






Phil Scott

"Adam Russell" <adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote in message
a booming economy that will cause demand to exceed supply and
lead to inflation. Either that or someone is trying to cause a recession.

News wrote:

or something like that, but whatever you call them, interest rates are
still artificially low.

The economy will stagnate until the bums are thrown out in an election.

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"Phil Scott" <philscott@philscott.net> wrote:

Suggest you choose something that allows you to sell to overseas
customers, it seems like Americans are already hunkered down into
indebted misery.

"Adam Russell" <adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote:

Pardon me, but what the fuck do you think China has been doing besides
eating our lunch for the better part of a decade?

Adam Russell wrote:
No, I've never heard anyone mention China or India as future economic
powerhouses. I sure need a scapegoat to blame my inability to find a
high paying programming job, but there doesn't seem to be one on the
horizon. On the other hand, my Japanese stocks are up like 30%, so
maybe the next Japan will be...Japan?

Pies de Arcilla wrote:
Are you being ironic?

CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:

Just after hell freezes over, eh?

millstox wrote:

I'm more optimistic than that. Surely Americans will eventually wake up.

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comics@webtv.net wrote:

look pretty good, too.

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News wrote:

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