| Author |
Message |
s_knight8
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:18 am Post subject:
Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1627424,00.html
Friday November 4, 2005
The Guardian
It seems too good to be true: a new source of near-limitless power that
costs virtually nothing, uses tiny amounts of water as its fuel and produces
next to no waste. If that does not sound radical enough, how about this: the
principle behind the source turns modern physics on its head.
Randell Mills, a Harvard University medic who also studied electrical
engineering at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, claims to have built a
prototype power source that generates up to 1,000 times more heat than
conventional fuel. Independent scientists claim to have verified the
experiments and Dr Mills says that his company, Blacklight Power, has tens
of millions of dollars in investment lined up to bring the idea to market.
And he claims to be just months away from unveiling his creation.
The problem is that according to the rules of quantum mechanics, the physics
that governs the behaviour of atoms, the idea is theoretically impossible.
"Physicists are quite conservative. It's not easy to convince them to change
a theory that is accepted for 50 to 60 years. I don't think [Mills's] theory
should be supported," said Jan Naudts, a theoretical physicist at the
University of Antwerp.
What has much of the physics world up in arms is Dr Mills's claim that he
has produced a new form of hydrogen, the simplest of all the atoms, with
just a single proton circled by one electron. In his "hydrino", the electron
sits a little closer to the proton than normal, and the formation of the new
atoms from traditional hydrogen releases huge amounts of energy.
This is scientific heresy. According to quantum mechanics, electrons can
only exist in an atom in strictly defined orbits, and the shortest distance
allowed between the proton and electron in hydrogen is fixed. The two
particles are simply not allowed to get any closer.
According to Dr Mills, there can be only one explanation: quantum mechanics
must be wrong. "We've done a lot of testing. We've got 50 independent
validation reports, we've got 65 peer-reviewed journal articles," he said.
"We ran into this theoretical resistance and there are some vested interests
here. People are very strong and fervent protectors of this [quantum] theory
that they use."
Rick Maas, a chemist at the University of North Carolina at Asheville (UNC)
who specialises in sustainable energy sources, was allowed unfettered access
to Blacklight's laboratories this year. "We went in with a healthy amount of
scepticism. While it would certainly be nice if this were true, in my
position as head of a research institution, I really wouldn't want to make a
mistake. The last thing I want is to be remembered as the person who
derailed a lot of sustainable energy investment into something that wasn't
real."
But Prof Maas and Randy Booker, a UNC physicist, left under no doubt about
Dr Mill's claims. "All of us who are not quantum physicists are looking at
Dr Mills's data and we find it very compelling," said Prof Maas. "Dr Booker
and I have both put our professional reputations on the line as far as that
goes."
Dr Mills's idea goes against almost a century of thinking. When scientists
developed the theory of quantum mechanics they described a world where
measuring the exact position or energy of a particle was impossible and
where the laws of classical physics had no effect. The theory has been
hailed as one of the 20th century's greatest achievements.
But it is an achievement Dr Mills thinks is flawed. He turned back to
earlier classical physics to develop a theory which, unlike quantum
mechanics, allows an electron to move much closer to the proton at the heart
of a hydrogen atom and, in doing so, release the substantial amounts of
energy he seeks to exploit. Dr Mills's theory, known as classical quantum
mechanics and published in the journal Physics Essays in 2003, has been
criticised most publicly by Andreas Rathke of the European Space Agency. In
a damning critique published recently in the New Journal of Physics, he
argued that Dr Mills's theory was the result of mathematical mistakes.
Dr Mills argues that there are plenty of flaws in Dr Rathke's critique. "His
paper's riddled with mistakes. We've had other physicists contact him and
say this is embarrassing to the journal and [Dr Rathke] won't respond," said
Dr Mills.
While the theoretical tangle is unlikely to resolve itself soon, those
wanting to exploit the technology are pushing ahead. "We would like to
understand it from an academic standpoint and then we would like to be able
to use the implications to actually produce energy products," said Prof
Maas. "The companies that are lining up behind this are household names."
Dr Mills will not go into details of who is investing in his research but
rumours suggest a range of US power companies. It is well known also that
Nasa's institute of advanced concepts has funded research into finding a way
of using Blacklight's technology to power rockets.
According to Prof Maas, the first product built with Blacklight's
technology, which will be available in as little as four years, will be a
household heater. As the technology is scaled up, he says, bigger furnaces
will be able to boil water and turn turbines to produce electricity.
In a recent economic forecast, Prof Maas calculated that hydrino energy
would cost around 1.2 cents (0.7p) per kilowatt hour. This compares to an
average of 5 cents per kWh for coal and 6 cents for nuclear energy.
"If it's wrong, it will be proven wrong," said Kert Davies, research
director of Greenpeace USA. "But if it's right, it is so important that all
else falls away. It has the potential to solve our dependence on oil. Our
stance is of cautious optimism."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Nomen Nescio
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
From: "s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com>
| Quote: | It seems too good to be true: a new source of near-limitless power that
costs virtually nothing, uses tiny amounts of water as its fuel and produces
next to no waste. If that does not sound radical enough, how about this: the
principle behind the source turns modern physics on its head.
|
Damn. I've got all my money invested in the Moller Sky Car,
right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
Manure physics, I predict.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frithiof Andreas Jensen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dkp5e7$qef@dispatch.concentric.net...
| Quote: | http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1627424,00.html
|
Classic BS:
| Quote: | Randell Mills, a Harvard University medic who also studied electrical
engineering at Massachusetts Institute of Technology,
|
before dropping out??
| Quote: | claims to have built a
prototype power source that generates up to 1,000 times more heat than
conventional fuel.
|
"fuel" being defined as ....
| Quote: | Independent scientists
|
who, conveniently, have no names
| Quote: | claim to have verified the
experiments and Dr Mills says that his company, Blacklight Power, has tens
of millions of dollars in investment lined up to bring the idea to market.
|
so it *must* be true *millions of investment dollars* just cannot be wrong
....
| Quote: | And he claims to be just months away from unveiling his creation.
|
i.e. current month + delta
| Quote: | The problem is that according to the rules of quantum mechanics, the
physics
that governs the behaviour of atoms, the idea is theoretically impossible.
"Physicists are quite conservative. It's not easy to convince them to
change
a theory that is accepted for 50 to 60 years. I don't think [Mills's]
theory
should be supported," said Jan Naudts, a theoretical physicist at the
University of Antwerp.
What has much of the physics world up in arms is Dr Mills's claim that he
has produced a new form of hydrogen, the simplest of all the atoms, with
just a single proton circled by one electron. In his "hydrino", the
electron
sits a little closer to the proton than normal, and the formation of the
new
atoms from traditional hydrogen releases huge amounts of energy.
|
err - is *alledged to* realease "huge amounts of energy", whatever "huge"
is.
| Quote: |
This is scientific heresy. According to quantum mechanics, electrons can
only exist in an atom in strictly defined orbits, and the shortest
distance
allowed between the proton and electron in hydrogen is fixed. The two
particles are simply not allowed to get any closer.
According to Dr Mills, there can be only one explanation: quantum
mechanics
must be wrong. "We've done a lot of testing. We've got 50 independent
validation reports, we've got 65 peer-reviewed journal articles," he said.
|
but we cannot name any references
| Quote: | "We ran into this theoretical resistance and there are some vested
interests
here. People are very strong and fervent protectors of this [quantum]
theory
that they use."
|
so it must be a CONSPIRACY by BIG OIL
| Quote: | Rick Maas, a chemist at the University of North Carolina at Asheville
(UNC)
who specialises in sustainable energy sources, was allowed unfettered
access
to Blacklight's laboratories this year. "We went in with a healthy amount
of
scepticism. While it would certainly be nice if this were true, in my
position as head of a research institution, I really wouldn't want to make
a
mistake. The last thing I want is to be remembered as the person who
derailed a lot of sustainable energy investment into something that wasn't
real."
|
Pons and Fleichmann were Chemists too
| Quote: | But Prof Maas and Randy Booker, a UNC physicist, left under no doubt about
Dr Mill's claims. "All of us who are not quantum physicists are looking at
Dr Mills's data and we find it very compelling," said Prof Maas. "Dr
Booker
and I have both put our professional reputations on the line as far as
that
goes."
|
all the way to the bank, one suspects
| Quote: | Dr Mills's idea goes against almost a century of thinking. When scientists
developed the theory of quantum mechanics they described a world where
measuring the exact position or energy of a particle was impossible and
where the laws of classical physics had no effect. The theory has been
hailed as one of the 20th century's greatest achievements.
But it is an achievement Dr Mills thinks is flawed. He turned back to
earlier classical physics to develop a theory which, unlike quantum
mechanics, allows an electron to move much closer to the proton at the
heart
of a hydrogen atom and, in doing so, release the substantial amounts of
energy he seeks to exploit.
|
Making Physics fit the need, eh?
| Quote: | Dr Mills's theory, known as classical quantum
mechanics and published in the journal Physics Essays in 2003, has been
criticised most publicly by Andreas Rathke of the European Space Agency.
In
a damning critique published recently in the New Journal of Physics, he
argued that Dr Mills's theory was the result of mathematical mistakes.
Dr Mills argues that there are plenty of flaws in Dr Rathke's critique.
"His
paper's riddled with mistakes. We've had other physicists contact him and
say this is embarrassing to the journal and [Dr Rathke] won't respond,"
said
Dr Mills.
|
Speling ?
| Quote: |
While the theoretical tangle is unlikely to resolve itself soon, those
wanting to exploit the technology are pushing ahead. "We would like to
understand it from an academic standpoint and then we would like to be
able
to use the implications to actually produce energy products," said Prof
Maas. "The companies that are lining up behind this are household names."
Dr Mills will not go into details of who is investing in his research but
|
easier to keep mum than to lie, I suppose
| Quote: | rumours suggest a range of US power companies. It is well known also that
Nasa's institute of advanced concepts has funded research into finding a
way
of using Blacklight's technology to power rockets.
|
As are all - because there is no information to go by in that article.
| Quote: | According to Prof Maas, the first product built with Blacklight's
technology, which will be available in as little as four years, will be a
household heater. As the technology is scaled up, he says, bigger furnaces
will be able to boil water and turn turbines to produce electricity.
In a recent economic forecast, Prof Maas calculated that hydrino energy
would cost around 1.2 cents (0.7p) per kilowatt hour. This compares to an
average of 5 cents per kWh for coal and 6 cents for nuclear energy.
"If it's wrong, it will be proven wrong," said Kert Davies, research
director of Greenpeace USA. "But if it's right, it is so important that
all
else falls away. It has the potential to solve our dependence on oil. Our
stance is of cautious optimism."
|
like Electronic Voice Phenomenae: telling us what we would like to hear, but
no science! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frithiof Andreas Jensen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dkp5e7$qef@dispatch.concentric.net...
| Quote: | http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1627424,00.html
|
close to:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
millstox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1627424,00.html
Friday November 4, 2005
The Guardian
It seems too good to be true: a new source of near-limitless power that
costs virtually nothing, uses tiny amounts of water as its fuel and produces
next to no waste.
|
<snip>
| Quote: | According to Prof Maas, the first product built with Blacklight's
technology, which will be available in as little as four years, will be a
household heater. As the technology is scaled up, he says, bigger furnaces
will be able to boil water and turn turbines to produce electricity.
In a recent economic forecast, Prof Maas calculated that hydrino energy
would cost around 1.2 cents (0.7p) per kilowatt hour. This compares to an
average of 5 cents per kWh for coal and 6 cents for nuclear energy.
|
Pretty pricey for something that uses "tiny amounts of water" as its
fuel. There must be significant energy used in the process.
| Quote: | "If it's wrong, it will be proven wrong," said Kert Davies, research
director of Greenpeace USA. "But if it's right, it is so important that all
else falls away. It has the potential to solve our dependence on oil. Our
stance is of cautious optimism."
|
Theory guys base their whole world on their theories, when something
really new comes along it turns them on their asses.
If the thing converts water to "hydrino" molecules, I wonder what the
long-term environmental impact would be.
I would guess that (a) it's bullshit, (b) the guy meets with an
accident before anything comes to market, or (c) it gets hung up by
government requirements for decades.
On the other hand, something truely new *will* come along one of these
days. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
just a thought. i thought i learned in chemistry that the electron
circles the neutron, not the proton. but that was in the last
century....hee hee
"Smoking is a sign of personal independence and MUST be stopped !!!"
qoute from leaders of the united nations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Doug
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
| I'll wait for the movie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rich.
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:00 am Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
<comics@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13425-4370B939-100@storefull-3177.bay.webtv.net...
| Quote: | just a thought. i thought i learned in chemistry that the electron
circles the neutron, not the proton. but that was in the last
century....hee hee
|
Think hydrogen...one electron orbiting one proton - no neutrons. Any other
element and you have proton(s) and neutron(s) clustered together to form
the nucleus which the electron(s) then orbit around.
--
Rich
Growing old is mandatory.
Growing up is optional. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gib Bogle
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:
Bad science is good business for the entertainment media. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Arthur
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:05 am Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
I guess you assume that the people who really count here are incapable
of using a www browser given a posted URL?
a
=
On 07 Nov 2005 22:18:31 EST, "s_knight8" wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1627424,00.html
Friday November 4, 2005
The Guardian
|
------------- snip the bandwidth hogging OT crap ------------------ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:00 am Post subject:
Re: Scientist says device disproves quantum theory |
|
|
Sounds like a new 'Cold Fusion' theory / bullcrap to me.
I'll go with 'Quantum Physics' and String Theory as being real enough
science. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in