| Author |
Message |
Flasherly
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Who needs TRP |
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Jesus Christo - All I basically did was bail on substantial long
holdings I held in PRLAX when that banana boat started sinking. I've
made ONE and only ONE recent excursion to try and make up sector losses
with another play, but took a bath on that - PRASX - an admitted short
sell. Everything else, and I've owned several of their funds over the
years, has been consistant with TRP tranding. Evidently, they are not
giving me ANY leeway regarding last months downturn over the two measly
TRP funds I did own, and this sort of treatment is nothing short of
bullshit. No wonder they need Paul McCartney in their advertising
deptartment to make up for a lost presence in the financial world.
Poor guy must be daft by now to not realize what bandwagon he's getting
up on.
So what does this mean, folks - I'm now an expatriat for the rest of my
life in the Land of Capitolism, as far as those high-handed TRP sons of
bitches are concerned?
[Missive included below.]
Regarding your account,
You have been identified by T Rowe Price for having violated the funds
excessive trading policy, which is commonly referred to as market
timing or short-term trading. As stated in the fund's prospectus, the
fund company reserves the right to restrict exchanges and purchases
that they feel are not in the best interest of the fund or the majority
of its shareholders.
T Rowe Price takes this issue of short-term trading very seriously.
Therefore, since excessive
trading could be detrimental to the funds performance, the fund company
has placed a stop purchase on your account and has removed all exchange
privileges. You may either leave your investment in your current fund
or redeem it.
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happy-guy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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As I have mentioned several times, the investment worm has turned.... 10
years ago, you could trade as often as you liked most places, except
Vanguard, where 2 per year was pretty much it..... Now, they will black list
you, charge you early redemption fees, etc......
It is the main reason most of the other investors in my group hedge current
positions or moved completely to rydex or profunds.
Happy Guy
-
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net> wrote in message
news:1131059149.927154.244710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I know. I read your posts (CEFs), Ed, and I'm trying. I just don't get
the same "feel" with them ... something about their volatility, I'm not
sure. Think I'll go to the billiard hall to play chess and cool down
after that bastard-of-a-letter. |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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I sold a fund at Vanguard and I got a note that said I can't buy it back for
90 days.
I sold the rest of what I had at Vanguard in response. Who needs them.
ETF's are the index funds, CEF's are not.
Example, PRLAX vs. ILF (ETF: S&P Latin America 40)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=PRLAX&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=ilf
For a trade, EPP & EEM vs PRASX
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=6m&s=PRASX&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=epp+eem
EPP iShares MSCI Pacific ex-Japan
EEM iShares MSCI Emerg Mkts Index
I wanted to increase financials as a percentage of my portfolio so I bought
IXG & a smaller amount of XLF. I may sell both before the end of the year
but if I do I will be able to buy them back the next day. No fees, other
than a small commission, no penalties, no restrictions. See ya later
Vanguard.
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net> wrote in message
news:1131059149.927154.244710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I know. I read your posts (CEFs), Ed, and I'm trying. I just don't get
the same "feel" with them ... something about their volatility, I'm not
sure. Think I'll go to the billiard hall to play chess and cool down
after that bastard-of-a-letter.
Ed wrote:
Use ETF's.
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net> wrote in message
news:1131058392.885958.200470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Jesus Christo - All I basically did was bail on substantial long
holdings I held in PRLAX when that banana boat started sinking. I've
made ONE and only ONE recent excursion to try and make up sector losses
with another play, but took a bath on that - PRASX - an admitted short
sell. Everything else, and I've owned several of their funds over the
years, has been consistant with TRP tranding. Evidently, they are not
giving me ANY leeway regarding last months downturn over the two measly
TRP funds I did own, and this sort of treatment is nothing short of
bullshit. No wonder they need Paul McCartney in their advertising
deptartment to make up for a lost presence in the financial world.
Poor guy must be daft by now to not realize what bandwagon he's getting
up on.
So what does this mean, folks - I'm now an expatriat for the rest of my
life in the Land of Capitolism, as far as those high-handed TRP sons of
bitches are concerned?
[Missive included below.]
Regarding your account,
You have been identified by T Rowe Price for having violated the funds
excessive trading policy, which is commonly referred to as market
timing or short-term trading. As stated in the fund's prospectus, the
fund company reserves the right to restrict exchanges and purchases
that they feel are not in the best interest of the fund or the majority
of its shareholders.
T Rowe Price takes this issue of short-term trading very seriously.
Therefore, since excessive
trading could be detrimental to the funds performance, the fund company
has placed a stop purchase on your account and has removed all exchange
privileges. You may either leave your investment in your current fund
or redeem it.
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Flasherly
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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|
I know. I read your posts (CEFs), Ed, and I'm trying. I just don't get
the same "feel" with them ... something about their volatility, I'm not
sure. Think I'll go to the billiard hall to play chess and cool down
after that bastard-of-a-letter.
Ed wrote:
| Quote: | Use ETF's.
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net> wrote in message
news:1131058392.885958.200470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Jesus Christo - All I basically did was bail on substantial long
holdings I held in PRLAX when that banana boat started sinking. I've
made ONE and only ONE recent excursion to try and make up sector losses
with another play, but took a bath on that - PRASX - an admitted short
sell. Everything else, and I've owned several of their funds over the
years, has been consistant with TRP tranding. Evidently, they are not
giving me ANY leeway regarding last months downturn over the two measly
TRP funds I did own, and this sort of treatment is nothing short of
bullshit. No wonder they need Paul McCartney in their advertising
deptartment to make up for a lost presence in the financial world.
Poor guy must be daft by now to not realize what bandwagon he's getting
up on.
So what does this mean, folks - I'm now an expatriat for the rest of my
life in the Land of Capitolism, as far as those high-handed TRP sons of
bitches are concerned?
[Missive included below.]
Regarding your account,
You have been identified by T Rowe Price for having violated the funds
excessive trading policy, which is commonly referred to as market
timing or short-term trading. As stated in the fund's prospectus, the
fund company reserves the right to restrict exchanges and purchases
that they feel are not in the best interest of the fund or the majority
of its shareholders.
T Rowe Price takes this issue of short-term trading very seriously.
Therefore, since excessive
trading could be detrimental to the funds performance, the fund company
has placed a stop purchase on your account and has removed all exchange
privileges. You may either leave your investment in your current fund
or redeem it.
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
|
|
Use ETF's.
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net> wrote in message
news:1131058392.885958.200470@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Jesus Christo - All I basically did was bail on substantial long
holdings I held in PRLAX when that banana boat started sinking. I've
made ONE and only ONE recent excursion to try and make up sector losses
with another play, but took a bath on that - PRASX - an admitted short
sell. Everything else, and I've owned several of their funds over the
years, has been consistant with TRP tranding. Evidently, they are not
giving me ANY leeway regarding last months downturn over the two measly
TRP funds I did own, and this sort of treatment is nothing short of
bullshit. No wonder they need Paul McCartney in their advertising
deptartment to make up for a lost presence in the financial world.
Poor guy must be daft by now to not realize what bandwagon he's getting
up on.
So what does this mean, folks - I'm now an expatriat for the rest of my
life in the Land of Capitolism, as far as those high-handed TRP sons of
bitches are concerned?
[Missive included below.]
Regarding your account,
You have been identified by T Rowe Price for having violated the funds
excessive trading policy, which is commonly referred to as market
timing or short-term trading. As stated in the fund's prospectus, the
fund company reserves the right to restrict exchanges and purchases
that they feel are not in the best interest of the fund or the majority
of its shareholders.
T Rowe Price takes this issue of short-term trading very seriously.
Therefore, since excessive
trading could be detrimental to the funds performance, the fund company
has placed a stop purchase on your account and has removed all exchange
privileges. You may either leave your investment in your current fund
or redeem it.
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Flasherly
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:01 am Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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Could be in response to computer trading, timeframe fits, although I
couldn't say what an equitable solution might be. 2% early redemption
as a thoughtful prospectus stipend I paid Third Avenue funds come
foremost to mind, as it adds up when moving substantial amounts.
Didn't escape my notice prior to last month's heyday of pulling $1500
daily profits and headstrong $30K sector moves. I think Third Ave
wrote that in well. Reason to think twice about my intent before once
more heavily exposing myself long on the likes of TAREX. I bought two
Asian funds at the same time, sector plays, and shortly thereafter left
on TRP's alarming losses by way of comparison into what seemed the
better - Vanguard's VPACX. I'll keep that bit of timely advice about
Vanguard in mind, thank you. I haven't seen a lot of testimonials
regarding burnt fingers, even though it's something I've wondered about
-- where do boundaries actually form. As much as I do doubt they're
written in stone between the major houses. About Profunds and Rydex
I've mixed feelings and not extensive exposure, although I did buy back
into RYPRX just earlier today. And though there are plenty still to
choose from - it's that "blacklist" aspect you mention that most irks
me. I'm no longer an idealist playing unbesmirched on an open field of
capital resources. For having determined a sum of lost money was
unacceptable, I've impinged upon the financial world's code of ethics.
I'm now a known and branded "timer" How nice of TR Price to have so
succinctly profiled me with such a definative term.
happy-guy wrote:
| Quote: | As I have mentioned several times, the investment worm has turned.... 10
years ago, you could trade as often as you liked most places, except
Vanguard, where 2 per year was pretty much it..... Now, they will black list
you, charge you early redemption fees, etc......
It is the main reason most of the other investors in my group hedge current
positions or moved completely to rydex or profunds. |
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happy-guy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:01 am Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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|
That's a quandary.... funds going down, do I sell and get blacklisted or
hold on and hope it will reverse (could be one month, one year, ??).... puts
the burden on the investor, right where they want it.
As mentioned, years ago this was not a problem, now they are enforcing the
idea that mutual funds are for 'the long haul'.
I could do etfs, but don't like the potential of getting trapped into
watching the markets even more than I already do during the day..... so,
funds, with daily closing prices are mentally easier for me.
btw, welcome to the world of 'market timing'..... and you got here without
even knowing it..!
Happy Guy
-
"Flasherly" <gjerrell@ij.net> wrote in message > I'm now a known and branded
"timer" How nice of TR Price to have so
| Quote: | succinctly profiled me with such a definative term.
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neutron
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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hi, ed. i thought it time too to get into some fnancials. i have had
FBR small cap financial for quite some time. i added the closed end,
FF, with the premium and all. neutron |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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"neutron" <admin@karmamatic.com> wrote
| Quote: | hi, ed. i thought it time too to get into some fnancials. i have had
FBR small cap financial for quite some time. i added the closed end,
FF, with the premium and all. neutron
|
I like both of those, FF is a favorite. I try to avoid CEF's near
distribution time though, they seem to create 1099 hell. I do own FUND
though, it pays quarterly. |
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happy-guy
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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A mutual fund should be what I, the customer, want it to be. In this case,
the customer is often wrong....
Who are you to tell me how often I should move money...... ?
Funk 'em....... thank heavens for profunds.
Happy Guy
-
"Loose On the Lead" <dts2172-ng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131113926.451936.321070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I don't get the objection. Mutual funds were never intended to be
trading vehicles. They're supposed to be long-term holds, so anything
more than two round-trips in a year absolutely should be discouraged.
And two should be unusual. |
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Flasherly
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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|
Ed wrote:
| Quote: | I sold a fund at Vanguard and I got a note that said I can't buy it back for
90 days.
I sold the rest of what I had at Vanguard in response. Who needs them.
|
Probably kept it short, less than 90 days. Who needs the present
system, one might rephrase that. Someday, someone ought to challenge
them -- the jobbers turned biz admin/economics, turned
political/lobbyist, and all other duly elected for life majors -- to
can spell it out in b&w, what exactly, in equitable wording, empowers
an ambiguous turn of words, frequent trader, to abide as a breach of
ethics and premise forfeiture of all present and future contracts.
Index, big word. I gather there's some broader alliances between
ETF/CEF/OEF/ADR, whose workings and an interplay I need to research.
Practically, I've already bought several ETFs. What I meant earlier by
"feel" - I don't get the same "action" as conventional funds, though I
didn't care much for indices in conventional flavors, either. I'm
probably just a latent DCA-er with a strong B&H bent (if and when
possible), like Happy Guy says. And, so, what I [suspect I] need to do
is get over it (lazy) and time. I also don't think ILF (bought some of
that 10/17) is the best example to hold alongside PRLAX - reason: it's
too stellar for broadly assessing an ETF exchange. I'm already running
into ETF detractor's surveys alongside broader indexed mutuals, that
are saying they're not entirely viable instruments. Grain of salt to
an extent of what I actually have read, and entirely without reference
to being kicked out of fund houses for timing. There's a saying in
equities I ran into when I started, 5 yrs. ago: You pick 4, and if you
score, there's one in there worth milking for the cream; I'm still
batting zero with ETFs.
| Quote: | EPP iShares MSCI Pacific ex-Japan
EEM iShares MSCI Emerg Mkts Index
I wanted to increase financials as a percentage of my portfolio so I bought
IXG & a smaller amount of XLF. I may sell both before the end of the year
but if I do I will be able to buy them back the next day. No fees, other
than a small commission, no penalties, no restrictions. See ya later
Vanguard.
|
Was already added to my notes from finance feeds - EEM ( own eww -
latin midcap, noted ewc - canada) as watch points with potential.
Looking over later posts - FF, FBR, FUND, etc., ran some quick charts.
Damn, maybe I need an eye checkup, but some of it looks like a dog's
behind.
-I used to tell first-time contestants to scream loudly, as ferociously
as possible at the judges during the pose down. -The Austrian Oak |
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Loose On the Lead
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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happy-guy wrote:
| Quote: | A mutual fund should be what I, the customer, want it to be.
|
Sorry, but no. When you buy a coffee maker, do you complain that it
doesn't make milk shakes? Mutual funds aren't designed for rapid
trading. Their pricing is too inefficient.
| Quote: | Who are you to tell me how often I should move money...... ?
|
No one is telling you how often to trade. They're telling you how
often to trade mutual funds intended to be long-term holds. Sort of
similarly, banks discourage you from cashing out of CDs early, yet I
doubt you complain about those penalties.
TRP doesn't want traders buying its funds, and there's nothing wrong
with that. Its B&H customers agree. Don't take it personally. Just
trade securities intended for trading.
Darin |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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Darin, I kind of agree with you. I think the biggest problem is that many of
the changes that have taken place have been recent. People were already
invested with Vanguard or T. Rowe Price. Now these people can't do what they
could before or a cost has been added where there was none before.
Happy guy is right, it's his money. T, Rowe Price is right as well, they
make the rules. If you don't like the rules go elsewhere. Fine for someone
that didn't have more freedom before. I'm adapting, others will too.
Vanguard is a special case though, I don't know what the heck they're doing.
Chasing away current and prospective customers is not a sound business
practice.
I like T. Rowe Price, so far. I own 4, one is a money fund, of their funds
and don't trade them. I would not hesitate to move the money to my money
market fund if I thought we were in for a real bad time though.
"Loose On the Lead" <dts2172-ng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131116385.877979.154650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
happy-guy wrote:
A mutual fund should be what I, the customer, want it to be.
Sorry, but no. When you buy a coffee maker, do you complain that it
doesn't make milk shakes? Mutual funds aren't designed for rapid
trading. Their pricing is too inefficient.
Who are you to tell me how often I should move money...... ?
No one is telling you how often to trade. They're telling you how
often to trade mutual funds intended to be long-term holds. Sort of
similarly, banks discourage you from cashing out of CDs early, yet I
doubt you complain about those penalties.
TRP doesn't want traders buying its funds, and there's nothing wrong
with that. Its B&H customers agree. Don't take it personally. Just
trade securities intended for trading.
Darin
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Loose On the Lead
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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|
I don't get the objection. Mutual funds were never intended to be
trading vehicles. They're supposed to be long-term holds, so anything
more than two round-trips in a year absolutely should be discouraged.
And two should be unusual.
There is no good reason that you should be able to trade MFs well, but
not be able to trade ETFs well...that is, unless your edge with MFs is
the ability to dateline or otherwise take advantage of the once-a-day
pricing. If that is indeed your edge, then tough--it's exactly why
B&Hers don't want you in the fund. You're sapping their returns.
Learn to use ETFs and CEFs. They're the vehicles designed specifically
for your needs.
Darin |
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rono
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject:
Re: Who needs TRP |
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Hi folks,
Yeppers, this is NOT your fathers day and age. When we all got popped
for datelining the families got religion and in a lot of cases have
over-reacted. While Vanguard has always been a snot, it's sad to see
Price getting this snotty and not even warning you. I'd petition their
asses on the lack of warning and a promise to be a good little boy.
However, that doesn't detract from the enormous bullshit this places on
the aveage investor. And by this I'm talking about us, but the average
investor. Example. My wife is about as conservative a b&h investor as
you will find. She rebalances quarterly and that's it. She's got a
rollover IRA at Vanguard from which she's taking Substantially Equal
Periodic Payments (SEPP). Er, this means that at least annually, you
must move money from some fund(s) into the cash account for future
distributions. Well, as a conservative b&h rebalancing type investor,
this should be from whichever fund has gained the most over the past
year. Ah, but be this Health, you have a 1% FIVE YEAR steeenking ERF
that we've had to eat. Sorry, but this is insane and wrong. I'm a
firm believer in ERF's, but make them 2% net 180 days and be done with
it.
As for frequent trading, it used to be that 4 round trips a year was
the barrier. In this case, that's hardly been broached but simply
looks like one or two. I don't consider that fair either and would
complain. Hell, I know their spiel about long term investors.
However, you actions should have generated a warning at most.
Fairness when someone violates a rule is to TELL them the rule they
violated and give them the opportunity to mend their ways. Their
response was over the top. And, hey, wifey and I both have IRA's at
Price. They try this shit with me and I'll pull some serious money out
of their accounts. Mine may not be much, but wifey's is her rolled
over pension and they talk very nicely to her when the call to ask how
she's doing.
best,
rono |
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