| Author |
Message |
john_zigel
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject:
For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
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Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
Being united will be helpful to exchange useful information on how to
proceed and commence joint actions, if the case may be.
I invite anybody who can be interested in the subject to take an active
role and give his/her contribution.
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Meximal
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:02 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
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john_zigel wrote:
| Quote: | Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
Being united will be helpful to exchange useful information on how to
proceed and commence joint actions, if the case may be.
I invite anybody who can be interested in the subject to take an active
role and give his/her contribution.
|
I've been warn all people I known years ago that Refco has a history of
fraud and will repeat itself. No one listening.
Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
exchange security, no point panic. If you are issues holders, you are
already doom, why panic causing unnecessary health problem? Once the
acquisition completed, which is now under the negotiation, everything
will be back to normal and business will resume as normal except the
title of the firm may alter to new owner selected title.
Trust me, as veteran in the industry for 2 decades plus, CBOT & CME will
not simply let refco go under damage it's business due to Refco clients
account for 15 - 30% of total transaction vol. Both firm will one way
or the other help find suitable buyer if JC flower deal fell apart.
Surprised me most is that Lind-Waldock was suck into the scheme and
divorce now will be the right thing to do to protect it's clients and
company interest. Beside, Lind-Waldock would be worth far more than
origin Refco ( Ratco ) acquired them. |
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Meximal
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:02 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
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john_zigel wrote:
| Quote: | Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
Being united will be helpful to exchange useful information on how to
proceed and commence joint actions, if the case may be.
I invite anybody who can be interested in the subject to take an active
role and give his/her contribution.
|
I've warn all people I known years ago that Refco has a history of
corporate frauds and will repeat itself from track record of a few board
members. No one listened.
Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
Futures Commission Merchant, no point to panic. If you are issues
holders or under Refco Capital Markets, Ltd, you are already doom. Why
panic causing unnecessary health problem? Buyers will come in buy Refco
divisions one by one or in bulk. Once the acquisition completed, which
is now under intensive talk between the buyer and seller, everything
will be back to normal and business will resume as normal except the
title of the firm may alter to new owner selected title. It would be fun
for those who involved get life in jails.
Trust me, as veteran in the industry for 2 decades+, CBOT & CME will not
simply let Refco ( ratco ) goes under tarnishing it's business due to
Refco and it's subsidiaries's clients account for 15 - 30% of total
transaction vol. Both exchanges will one way or the other help find
suitable buyer(s) if JC flower deal fell apart.
Surprised me most is that Big firm like Lind-Waldock was suck into the
scheme without thoroughly audit it's book line by line. Obviously the
accounting firm they hired didn't perform it's duty well. Divorce now
will be the right thing to do to protect it's clients and company
interests. Beside, Lind-Waldock would be worth far more than origin
Refco ( Ratco ) acquired them.
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stay9
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:01 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
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Meximal wrote:
| Quote: | john_zigel wrote:
Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
Being united will be helpful to exchange useful information on how to
proceed and commence joint actions, if the case may be.
I invite anybody who can be interested in the subject to take an active
role and give his/her contribution.
I've been warn all people I known years ago that Refco has a history of
fraud and will repeat itself. No one listening.
Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
exchange security, no point panic. If you are issues holders, you are
already doom, why panic causing unnecessary health problem? Once the
acquisition completed, which is now under the negotiation, everything
will be back to normal and business will resume as normal except the
title of the firm may alter to new owner selected title.
Trust me, as veteran in the industry for 2 decades plus, CBOT & CME will
not simply let refco go under damage it's business due to Refco clients
account for 15 - 30% of total transaction vol. Both firm will one way
or the other help find suitable buyer if JC flower deal fell apart.
Surprised me most is that Lind-Waldock was suck into the scheme and
divorce now will be the right thing to do to protect it's clients and
company interest. Beside, Lind-Waldock would be worth far more than
origin Refco ( Ratco ) acquired them. |
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| Back to top |
|
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stay9
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:01 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
|
Meximal wrote:
| Quote: | john_zigel wrote:
Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
Being united will be helpful to exchange useful information on how to
proceed and commence joint actions, if the case may be.
I invite anybody who can be interested in the subject to take an active
role and give his/her contribution.
I've been warn all people I known years ago that Refco has a history of
fraud and will repeat itself. No one listening.
Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
exchange security, no point panic. If you are issues holders, you are
already doom, why panic causing unnecessary health problem? Once the
acquisition completed, which is now under the negotiation, everything
will be back to normal and business will resume as normal except the
title of the firm may alter to new owner selected title.
Trust me, as veteran in the industry for 2 decades plus, CBOT & CME will
not simply let refco go under damage it's business due to Refco clients
account for 15 - 30% of total transaction vol. Both firm will one way
or the other help find suitable buyer if JC flower deal fell apart.
Surprised me most is that Lind-Waldock was suck into the scheme and
divorce now will be the right thing to do to protect it's clients and
company interest. Beside, Lind-Waldock would be worth far more than
origin Refco ( Ratco ) acquired them. |
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|
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stay9
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:01 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
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RCM is unregulated co. the othere outfits are protected by the
exchanges and authorities, the fact is goldman sachs etc maybe
negotiating... RCM might be the sacrificial lamb in the breakup of the
co.. how can we seek recourse fo these fraud?? |
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stay9
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
|
john_zigel wrote:
| Quote: | Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
Being united will be helpful to exchange useful information on how to
proceed and commence joint actions, if the case may be.
I invite anybody who can be interested in the subject to take an active
role and give his/her contribution. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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stay9
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
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hello all,
since the co has filed fo chapter 11,
i think it is good we as a small grp seek a legal counsel together to
defray legal costs in our class suit against the co to retrive watever
monies fo our sake
how can we get the momentum going? |
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ynotssor
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
|
"stay9" <stay9@singnet.com.sg> wrote in message
news:1129629539.775251.184860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
.... absolutely nothing. |
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attorney richard stone
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:02 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
|
Meximal wrote:
| Quote: | john_zigel wrote:
Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
Being united will be helpful to exchange useful information on how to
proceed and commence joint actions, if the case may be.
I invite anybody who can be interested in the subject to take an active
role and give his/her contribution.
|
| Quote: | I've been warn all people I known years ago that Refco has a history of
fraud and will repeat itself. No one listening.
Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
exchange security, no point panic. If you are issues holders, you are
already doom, why panic causing unnecessary health problem? Once the
acquisition completed, which is now under the negotiation, everything
will be back to normal and business will resume as normal except the
title of the firm may alter to new owner selected title.
Trust me, as veteran in the industry for 2 decades plus, CBOT & CME will
not simply let refco go under damage it's business due to Refco clients
account for 15 - 30% of total transaction vol. Both firm will one way
or the other help find suitable buyer if JC flower deal fell apart.
Surprised me most is that Lind-Waldock was suck into the scheme and
divorce now will be the right thing to do to protect it's clients and
company interest. Beside, Lind-Waldock would be worth far more than
origin Refco ( Ratco ) acquired them.
|
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Enrico
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:02 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
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| Quote: | Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
exchange security, no point panic.
|
It seems that things are not like that.
Refco Capital Markets is unregulated, unsecured and subject to Bermuda
law,
as far as I know.
Moreover Refco says that they can do what they want with our accounts
since
"they own our money" ) although I find that simply incredible.
I thought that the judge would have faced this fundamental point before
the
Nov 09 public auction, but he didn't...
I'd like to know if our accounts are really frozen and controlled by
some public
authority, or if RFC can liquidate the positions and make them
disappear.
Nevertheless, seeing the REFCO bond pricing around 75% somewhat
reassures
me, since I think that this bond represent the value of the whole
company not
only the future division. |
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Enrico
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:02 am Post subject:
To Refco Capital Markets customers. |
|
|
| Quote: | john_zigel wrote:
Dear Refco Capital Markets' customers,
My company is among RCM's customers.
We are very worried since RCM has been freezing our accounts for
fifteen days; but we fear that we will never have our money back, also
because of the worsening news we got from the press.
We would like to constitute a coalition among all of the customers
Refco Capital Markets froze the accounts of.
|
I am unfortunately in the same position and I would strongly like to
be in touch with other Refco Capital Markets customers to share
information
and to set up common actions against them.
I can be reached at arcan@quipo.it |
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News
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 1:02 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
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|
"Enrico" <arcan@quipo.it> wrote in message
news:1131048542.437492.303730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
exchange security, no point panic.
It seems that things are not like that.
Refco Capital Markets is unregulated, unsecured and subject
to Bermuda law, as far as I know.
Moreover Refco says that they can do what they want with
our accounts since "they own our money" ) although I find
that simply incredible. I thought that the judge would have
faced this fundamental point before the Nov 09 public auction,
but he didn't...I'd like to know if our accounts are really frozen
and controlled by some public authority, or if RFC can
liquidate the positions and make them disappear.
Nevertheless, seeing the REFCO bond pricing around
75% somewhat reassures me, since I think that this bond
represent the value of the whole company not
only the future division.
Some people have the belief that funds on deposit with |
a futures broker is protected by some type of insurance
or security such as SIPC. Nothing could be farther from
the truth. The Exchanges probably would not let customers
of a member lose funds on deposit with a member firm due
to the damage it would do to the industry. But they are not
obligated to assume the liability of customer funds. They
have no obligation to non-member FCMs. |
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Jack
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:02 am Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
|
The protection of customer funds has nothing to do with Member or non-Member
but rather whether the funds qualify as segregated. Seg funds may not be
comingled with those of the brokerage company and must be kept separate.
Seg funds, however, are subject to losses due to other customers during
periods when liquidation of positions has been impeded. Remember, Refco
Capital Markets has declared bankruptcy- - not the regulated Refco, LLC.
Regards, Jack.
"News" <news@charter.net> wrote in message news:_Wwaf.22$Cw4.15@fe03.lga...
| Quote: |
"Enrico" <arcan@quipo.it> wrote in message
news:1131048542.437492.303730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected by
exchange security, no point panic.
It seems that things are not like that.
Refco Capital Markets is unregulated, unsecured and subject
to Bermuda law, as far as I know.
Moreover Refco says that they can do what they want with
our accounts since "they own our money" ) although I find
that simply incredible. I thought that the judge would have
faced this fundamental point before the Nov 09 public auction,
but he didn't...I'd like to know if our accounts are really frozen
and controlled by some public authority, or if RFC can
liquidate the positions and make them disappear.
Nevertheless, seeing the REFCO bond pricing around
75% somewhat reassures me, since I think that this bond
represent the value of the whole company not
only the future division.
Some people have the belief that funds on deposit with
a futures broker is protected by some type of insurance
or security such as SIPC. Nothing could be farther from
the truth. The Exchanges probably would not let customers
of a member lose funds on deposit with a member firm due
to the damage it would do to the industry. But they are not
obligated to assume the liability of customer funds. They
have no obligation to non-member FCMs.
|
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| Back to top |
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News
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:02 pm Post subject:
Re: For customers whom Refco Capital Markets..... |
|
|
"Jack" <jzaner@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:v42dnY-iA88SkvbeRVn-sQ@adelphia.com...
| Quote: | The protection of customer funds has nothing to do with Member or
non-Member
but rather whether the funds qualify as segregated. Seg funds may not be
comingled with those of the brokerage company and must be kept separate.
Seg funds, however, are subject to losses due to other customers during
periods when liquidation of positions has been impeded. Remember, Refco
Capital Markets has declared bankruptcy- - not the regulated Refco, LLC.
Regards, Jack.
The discussion was about whether the Exchanges offered any |
protection to customers. The answer is they have no obligation to
assume the liability of their member firms. Now to the point that
you have raised. Yes, customer funds held by CFTC registered
and NFA member firms are "supposed" to be held in a segregated
account until a trade is open. But the problem is the same as it
was in securities before SIPC, when a firm is facing financial
problems and probably will file bankruptcy the funds are not
there on liquidation. It is a false statement to imply that customer
funds held by a futures broker is "safe". They are only as safe
as the broker is financially sound. The funds are held by the
broker and not the Exchange clearing house. Funds are only
deposited by the broker with the clearing house to offset any
imbalance on open trades.
| Quote: |
"News" <news@charter.net> wrote in message
news:_Wwaf.22$Cw4.15@fe03.lga...
"Enrico" <arcan@quipo.it> wrote in message
news:1131048542.437492.303730@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Anyway, If you are simply trading account clients, you are protected
by
exchange security, no point panic.
It seems that things are not like that.
Refco Capital Markets is unregulated, unsecured and subject
to Bermuda law, as far as I know.
Moreover Refco says that they can do what they want with
our accounts since "they own our money" ) although I find
that simply incredible. I thought that the judge would have
faced this fundamental point before the Nov 09 public auction,
but he didn't...I'd like to know if our accounts are really frozen
and controlled by some public authority, or if RFC can
liquidate the positions and make them disappear.
Nevertheless, seeing the REFCO bond pricing around
75% somewhat reassures me, since I think that this bond
represent the value of the whole company not
only the future division.
Some people have the belief that funds on deposit with
a futures broker is protected by some type of insurance
or security such as SIPC. Nothing could be farther from
the truth. The Exchanges probably would not let customers
of a member lose funds on deposit with a member firm due
to the damage it would do to the industry. But they are not
obligated to assume the liability of customer funds. They
have no obligation to non-member FCMs.
|
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