| Author |
Message |
Ed
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject:
Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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You bet it is.
I couldn't help but notice that 99.9% of the people being shown in the news
clips are black. Some with sad stories, others stealing, others smashing
property so they could steal the contents of a store or building.
The Red Cross is running an ad looking for support for these victims.
Wouldn't you guess that all the people in the ad are white. Telling the same
sad stories.
I find stuff like this very interesting.
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Don
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Ed" <friday@fishinthe.net> wrote in message
news:11hgo415049c420@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | You bet it is.
I couldn't help but notice that 99.9% of the people being shown in the
news clips are black. Some with sad stories, others stealing, others
smashing property so they could steal the contents of a store or building.
The Red Cross is running an ad looking for support for these victims.
Wouldn't you guess that all the people in the ad are white. Telling the
same sad stories.
I find stuff like this very interesting.
|
Sad, but the explanation seems simple. The people you see in the news clips
are the ones who could not get out of town in advance, because they had no
money or no cars, or were in poor health, or had relatives in poor health,
or were so isolated that they didn't even hear the warnings to leave. The
veneer of civilization is thin. |
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Ed
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Don" <dwzimm@telus.net> wrote
| Quote: | "Ed" <friday@fishinthe.net> wrote
You bet it is.
I couldn't help but notice that 99.9% of the people being shown in the
news clips are black. Some with sad stories, others stealing, others
smashing property so they could steal the contents of a store or
building.
The Red Cross is running an ad looking for support for these victims.
Wouldn't you guess that all the people in the ad are white. Telling the
same sad stories.
I find stuff like this very interesting.
Sad, but the explanation seems simple. The people you see in the news
clips are the ones who could not get out of town in advance, because they
had no money or no cars, or were in poor health, or had relatives in poor
health, or were so isolated that they didn't even hear the warnings to
leave. The veneer of civilization is thin.
|
I saw it differently. I see the Red Cross soliciting whites because they
feel/know that's where the money is. This is where the racism lies, in
their ad.
I'm not attacking anyone here, just pointing what I see. The Red Cross is a
great organization and they are, in my experience, the first on the scene
after a tragic event occurs. They are right behind the firemen, police,
whoever, right there to help. They helped my family 48 years ago and I'll
never forget it.
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Elle
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Don" <dwzimm@telus.net> wrote
| Quote: | The people you see in the news clips
are the ones who could not get out of town in advance, because they had no
money or no cars, or were in poor health, or had relatives in poor health,
or were so isolated that they didn't even hear the warnings to leave. The
veneer of civilization is thin.
|
Short of becoming a truly socialist nation, there is nothing that could have
prevented the choices that have led to the overwhelming hardship being borne
by the poor today on the Gulf Coast.
The truth is, many of the poor of New Orleans had nothing before this, to
begin with. Of those who survive, I predict they will come out ahead. They
will be in parts of the country with less blight and less crime. (New
Orleans was crime-ridden. Now it's a war zone. Better to be in Iraq.)
This nation is now forced into socialist actions. From the ruins of Katrina
(and the idiocy of living in a city so prone to infrastructure failure) will
sprout new economic life: The federal government _will_ pump billions
(probably tens of billions) into the rebuilding of this area, creating jobs
and very possibly a good standard of living for some years.
Yes, this cost lives, but speaking practically, I do not see this sort of
thing being avoided in the future. Understanding the calculus of risk is not
as fun as gambling that one's apartment complex built on the shores of a
hurricane-vulnerable beach will make money for years before "the next big
one" hits.
Paul Krugman's NY Times column today is telling:
---
Before 9/11 the Federal Emergency Management Agency listed the three most
likely catastrophic disasters facing America: a terrorist attack on New
York, a major earthquake in San Francisco and a hurricane strike on New
Orleans. "The New Orleans hurricane scenario," The Houston Chronicle wrote
in December 2001, "may be the deadliest of all." It described a potential
catastrophe very much like the one now happening.
So why were New Orleans and the nation so unprepared? After 9/11, hard
questions were deferred in the name of national unity, then buried under a
thick coat of whitewash. This time, we need accountability.
---
Yeah right. The nation's power grid is antiquated. Any one of New York
City's three drinking etc. water supply pipes could fail at any time, though
efforts to build another are underway. Estimated completion date: Decades
away.
Anyway, interesting factoids, Mr. Krugman. But they do contrast with your
subsequent claim as follows:
---
At a fundamental level, I'd argue, our current leaders just aren't serious
about some of the essential functions of government. They like waging war,
but they don't like providing security, rescuing those in need or spending
on preventive measures. And they never, ever ask for shared sacrifice.
---
It's not about our leaders. It's about the people who put them into office.
_We_ like waging wag but don't like providing security, rescuing those in
need, etc. |
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Herb
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Y5%Re.6526$z2.2056@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | It's not about our leaders. It's about the people who put them into
office.
_We_ like waging wag but don't like providing security, rescuing those in
need, etc.
|
I wish I could remember the names of all of those people who told me that it
would be OK to elect a moron President because he would appoint competent
people to do the real work. As in the waging of the war in Iraq, it would
appear that we, instead, got other morons and the result is yet another mess
that is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better as our leaders
thrash about winging their response because they haven't really given the
matter any thought in the past.
A lot of people (mostly black and poor) are going to die because of this
gross incompetence. But these aren't voters we are talking about.
-herb |
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Elle
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Herb" <XXX@YYY.COM> wrote
| Quote: | "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
It's not about our leaders. It's about the people who put them into
office.
_We_ like waging wag but don't like providing security, rescuing those
in
need, etc.
I wish I could remember the names of all of those people who told me that
it
would be OK to elect a moron President because he would appoint competent
people to do the real work. As in the waging of the war in Iraq, it would
appear that we, instead, got other morons and the result is yet another
mess
that is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better as our leaders
thrash about winging their response because they haven't really given the
matter any thought in the past.
A lot of people (mostly black and poor) are going to die because of this
gross incompetence. But these aren't voters we are talking about.
|
Just exchanging opinions here.
First, I think many of New Orleans's poor were voters, but based on my
general reading on voting demographics of the poor, it's probable most of
them were not.
Assuming most of the poor in New Orleans do not vote (because, say, they
couldn't get an education to teach them about the power of voting yada),
should they be absolved of responsibility for this mess? I wouldn't put it
this way. They should be absolved of being poor and so unedudated and so
having the cards stacked against them, with a statistically lower chance of
avoiding a lifetime of poverty and so being killed in a tragedy like this.
Are we as a nation responsible for the New Orleans poor's suffering right
now? Yes, but only insofar as we reject an extremely Socialist form of
government.
I think most people do reject such a government. I bet everyone at this
newsgroup rejects the sort of Socialist government that would be necessary
to prevent the New Orleans' poor from suffering as they are now. The poor
will always suffer more than the middle class and wealthy at times like
this.
Second, would John Kerry have been able to prevent this? I would bet a lot
of money he would be doing no better than President Bush right now.
I don't think it's gross incompetence at all. We have a national culture of
gluttony that promotes gambling. Most of this country _chose_ to take a
gamble. Now it has to pay. But again, on the upside (and it's a big one),
there are victories here: A sewer of a city has been wiped out. All the
crimes that would have happened in the future are less likely to happen
elsewhere, due to the diaspora. Billions of dollars will be spent in the
area, demanding a large labor force, raising the standard of living of many
of the poor.
At a high cost of lives, granted. |
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Sam
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Herb" <XXX@YYY.COM> wrote
| Quote: | I wish I could remember the names of all of those people who told me that
it
would be OK to elect a moron President because he would appoint competent
people to do the real work.
|
I give you credit for remembering your name, Herbie.
This year I've been to St. Thomas, St. Martin, St. Maarten, Nassau, Miami.
Ft. Lauderdale, and we're headed for Orlando. Have you done anything since
your role as Michaael Jackson and your tour of Italy several years ago with
all the kids? |
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Herb
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:g70Se.3920$4P5.910@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | "Herb" <XXX@YYY.COM> wrote
"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
It's not about our leaders. It's about the people who put them into
office.
_We_ like waging wag but don't like providing security, rescuing those
in
need, etc.
I wish I could remember the names of all of those people who told me
that
it
would be OK to elect a moron President because he would appoint
competent
people to do the real work. As in the waging of the war in Iraq, it
would
appear that we, instead, got other morons and the result is yet another
mess
that is going to get a lot worse before it gets any better as our
leaders
thrash about winging their response because they haven't really given
the
matter any thought in the past.
A lot of people (mostly black and poor) are going to die because of this
gross incompetence. But these aren't voters we are talking about.
Just exchanging opinions here.
First, I think many of New Orleans's poor were voters, but based on my
general reading on voting demographics of the poor, it's probable most of
them were not.
Assuming most of the poor in New Orleans do not vote (because, say, they
couldn't get an education to teach them about the power of voting yada),
should they be absolved of responsibility for this mess? I wouldn't put it
this way. They should be absolved of being poor and so unedudated and so
having the cards stacked against them, with a statistically lower chance
of
avoiding a lifetime of poverty and so being killed in a tragedy like this.
Are we as a nation responsible for the New Orleans poor's suffering right
now? Yes, but only insofar as we reject an extremely Socialist form of
government.
I think most people do reject such a government. I bet everyone at this
newsgroup rejects the sort of Socialist government that would be necessary
to prevent the New Orleans' poor from suffering as they are now. The poor
will always suffer more than the middle class and wealthy at times like
this.
Second, would John Kerry have been able to prevent this? I would bet a lot
of money he would be doing no better than President Bush right now.
I don't think it's gross incompetence at all. We have a national culture
of
gluttony that promotes gambling. Most of this country _chose_ to take a
gamble. Now it has to pay. But again, on the upside (and it's a big one),
there are victories here: A sewer of a city has been wiped out. All the
crimes that would have happened in the future are less likely to happen
elsewhere, due to the diaspora. Billions of dollars will be spent in the
area, demanding a large labor force, raising the standard of living of
many
of the poor.
At a high cost of lives, granted.
|
Elle:
I don't know what could be more socialist than building a city below sea
level with federal money.
You misunderstand me. I am not blaming the government for the disaster nor
for the inability of the poor, elderly, crippled and criminal to avoid it.
I am blaming them for slow and inadequate response that will cost many more
lives.
Far be it from me to say what a Presidnet Kerry would do, but I think anyone
of normal intelligence would not have waited two days to cut his vacation
short so he could appear to be dealing with the crisis. I don't think it
would have taken a genius to see that this was going to be a disaster a few
days before it hit. Help should have been on the way by Saturday or Sunday,
not three days after the hurricane.
I can't help but think that if those were middle class white people sitting
on Interstate 10 for days without food, water or sanitation, we would have
found a way to get emergency supplies to them sooner.
-herb |
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PeterL
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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x-no-archive: yes
Ed wrote:
| Quote: | You bet it is.
I couldn't help but notice that 99.9% of the people being shown in the news
clips are black. Some with sad stories, others stealing, others smashing
property so they could steal the contents of a store or building.
The Red Cross is running an ad looking for support for these victims.
Wouldn't you guess that all the people in the ad are white. Telling the same
sad stories.
I find stuff like this very interesting.
|
But not surprising. |
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Sam
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"PeterL" <po.ning@gmail.com> wrote
| Quote: | Ed wrote:
You bet it is.
I couldn't help but notice that 99.9% of the people being shown in the
news
clips are black. Some with sad stories, others stealing, others smashing
property so they could steal the contents of a store or building.
The Red Cross is running an ad looking for support for these victims.
Wouldn't you guess that all the people in the ad are white. Telling the
same
sad stories.
I find stuff like this very interesting.
But not surprising.
|
Not at all. One of my favorite actors, Nick Cage gave $1 million. My wife
doesn't like him but I think he's a really good actor. I thought he was
really good in Raising Arizona and Con Air. |
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Terri
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Herb" <XXX@YYY.COM> wrote
| Quote: | Far be it from me to say what a Presidnet Kerry would do, but I think
anyone
of normal intelligence
|
How could someone of less than normal intelligence judge others?
That be you, Herbie. |
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TK Sung
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Ed" <friday@fishinthe.net> wrote in message
news:11hgvdsn1e2bb4c@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: |
I saw it differently. I see the Red Cross soliciting whites because they
feel/know that's where the money is. This is where the racism lies, in
their ad.
What's racist is that the ad had to resort to this because people would not |
empathize with black victims as much. Just look at writings all over the
Net calling those desperate people irresponsible, stupid and criminal when,
in reality, they are mostly people with no means to comply with mandatory
evacuation order. (20% with no cars, 40% below poverty, 70% black) What
assholes. |
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Elle
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:56 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Herb" <XXX@YYY.COM> wrote
snip, something that should be taught by grade 5 ;-)
| Quote: | I don't know what could be more socialist than building a city below sea
level with federal money.
|
lol
That's one way to look at it.
But of course, you surely jest, since the serious money put into New Orleans
benefits big business (oil refineries).
Some crumbs trickle down to the plebes.
| Quote: | You misunderstand me. I am not blaming the government for the disaster
nor
for the inability of the poor, elderly, crippled and criminal to avoid it.
I am blaming them for slow and inadequate response that will cost many
more
lives.
|
I am saying that, without radically different choices in how our country and
government functions, this could not have been stopped.
This hurricane could have hit last year; five years ago; in the 1980s. We
all knew it could happen. We did nothing. Now we have to ask why. Was doing
nothing a rational choice? Yes, insofar as we are a nation of gamblers. Many
would say New Orleans had a lot of good years until Katrina hit. Maybe those
good years made Katrina worth it, to a lot of people.
| Quote: | Far be it from me to say what a Presidnet Kerry would do, but I think
anyone
of normal intelligence would not have waited two days to cut his vacation
short so he could appear to be dealing with the crisis. I don't think it
would have taken a genius to see that this was going to be a disaster a
few
days before it hit. Help should have been on the way by Saturday or
Sunday,
not three days after the hurricane.
|
We disagree.
Serious help was not sent in advance for the same reasons that the levees
weren't re-designed years ago; the nation's electrical grid has become
antiquated, inadequate, and a major threat; New York City's water supply
could fail at any time.
We are a nation of gamblers, ignorant of the reality that infrastructure
actually does not last forever. We squeeze as much as we can out of the
infrastructure what we have, as long as the (short-term) dollars keep
rolling in, and we can have our "fancy" SUVs, Ford F-150s, and other
trappings of the alleged "good life."
| Quote: | I can't help but think that if those were middle class white people
sitting
on Interstate 10 for days without food, water or sanitation, we would have
found a way to get emergency supplies to them sooner.
|
Your opinion is heard. |
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Terri
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"TK Sung" <commissioner@ftc.gov> wrote
| Quote: | "Ed" <friday@fishinthe.net> wrote
I saw it differently. I see the Red Cross soliciting whites because they
feel/know that's where the money is. This is where the racism lies, in
their ad.
What's racist is that the ad had to resort to this because people would
not
empathize with black victims as much.
|
That's my point.
| Quote: | Just look at writings all over the
Net calling those desperate people irresponsible, stupid and criminal
when,
in reality, they are mostly people with no means to comply with mandatory
evacuation order. (20% with no cars, 40% below poverty, 70% black) What
assholes.
|
Being black, poor, and not having a car does not mean it's ok to steal
iPods. The police were allowing the taking of food and water from
supermarkets. It went way beyond that so now you have a bunch of armed
people terrorizing and even raping people. They should be shot. |
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Terri
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:01 am Post subject:
Re: Is racism still an issue in the US? |
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"Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
| Quote: | "Herb" <XXX@YYY.COM> wrote
But of course, you surely jest, since the serious money put into New
Orleans
benefits big business (oil refineries).
|
So they should ignore the refineries?
| Quote: | I am blaming them for slow and inadequate response that will cost many
more
lives.
|
Bush admitted it and said he was disappointed. Would you like him to kiss
your feet and give you a personal 'I'm sorry'?
Nothing. |
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