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James Chamblee
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:44 pm Post subject:
A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=6468
A Defeat Bred in Deceit
by Paul Craig Roberts
"Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose
lying as his principle."
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
As his British co-conspirators realized, only victory could save them
from the consequences.
On June 27, General George Casey, U.S. commander of the "multinational
coalition" in Iraq, told morning TV audiences that the conflict in
Iraq "will not be settled on the battlefield."
On June 26, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told TV audiences that
"coalition forces, foreign forces are not going to repress that
insurgency."
The insurgency, Rumsfeld said, might "go on five, six, eight, 10, 12
years."
These admissions give the lie to Vice President Cheney's claim that
the insurgency is in "its last throes."
Would Congress have let Bush invade Iraq if Congress had known that it
would not be a three-week war but a 12-year war?
What kind of fantastic lie or gross incompetence caused a 12-year war
to be marketed as a three-week war?
How can any people, no matter how deceived and deluded, support a
government capable of such miscalculation or deceit?
Would the Washington Post and the New York Times have been such
willing conduits of neoconservative propaganda against Iraq if anyone
on either paper had enough education to realize the catastrophe that
hubris was creating?
What if either paper had possessed enough of a reporter's skepticism
to ask a question?
General Casey's and Secretary Rumsfeld's remarks make it clear that
the Defense Department has given up the prospect of military victory:
The situation in Iraq, Gen. Casey said, "will ultimately be settled by
negotiation and inclusion in the political process."
Rumsfeld says the U.S. troops are being killed and maimed in order to
"create an environment that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi security
forces can win against that insurgency."
After three years of fighting, Rumsfeld still doesn't understand that
the Iraqi people are the insurgency.
Is Rumsfeld still clinging to the myth that the insurgency is an
outside element injected into Iraq?
When will the moronic Bush administration realize that it is creating
the environment in which the insurgency is prevailing?
Many readers write to me that Bush and his neocon crazies are Israel's
patsies.
An equally good case can be made that Bush and his crazy neocons are
Osama bin Laden's agents.
In a recent speech at the American University in Cairo, Egypt,
Secretary of State Condi Rice repudiated America's 60-year-old policy
of Middle East stability and declared:
"Now, we are taking a different course."
Rice, being completely ignorant of the Middle East, believes that the
path to democracy is through instability.
But, of course, instability is exactly what bin Laden wants.
The instability that the Bush administration is creating will unseat
our puppets in Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia.
Bin Laden intends to pick up the pieces.
The Bush administration has squandered America's diplomatic, economic,
and military power and is heading for defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, and
throughout the Middle East.
Bush's invasion of Iraq is fast becoming one of the greatest strategic
blunders in history.
____________________________________________________________
Notice how most Republicans rally to the side of this criminal
administration. Tells ya something, doesn't it.
Harry
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James Chamblee
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
| Quote: | When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
|
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose. |
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bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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James Chamblee wrote:
| Quote: | bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
|
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
bob
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bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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James Chamblee wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=6468
A Defeat Bred in Deceit
by Paul Craig Roberts
"Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose
lying as his principle."
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it. |
bob |
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Rumpelstiltskin
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:23 pm Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
|
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff. |
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Rumpelstiltskin
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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On 30 Jun 2005 14:20:24 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
Yabut, you're paranoid on the subject.
|
Hey the facts are there. We heard quite a bit about the
corrupt exclusion lists in Florida, and about the long lines
and the harassment from the "observers" in Ohio.
Call it sour grapes if you want, but that doesn't change the
fact that those things did happen. Some of us don't forget
as quickly as some others. |
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bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
| Quote: | On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
|
Yabut, you're paranoid on the subject.
grin
bob |
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Jerry Okamura
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:4k68c1d9avdcep2c24etfjpi73ju5p9jk7@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
That is what I would call a "what if" series of questions, with no correct |
answer. |
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bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
|
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
| Quote: | On 30 Jun 2005 14:20:24 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
Yabut, you're paranoid on the subject.
Hey the facts are there. We heard quite a bit about the
corrupt exclusion lists in Florida, and about the long lines
and the harassment from the "observers" in Ohio.
Call it sour grapes if you want, but that doesn't change the
fact that those things did happen. Some of us don't forget
as quickly as some others.
|
No one that I'm aware of thinks any of those things were critial to the
results. There are an equal number of allegations of cemetary voting,
illegals voting and felons voting placed against Democrats. Pick yer
paranoia and enjoy it from either side.
grn
bob |
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Rumpelstiltskin
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:51:17 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Rumpelstiltskin" <PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:4k68c1d9avdcep2c24etfjpi73ju5p9jk7@4ax.com...
On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
That is what I would call a "what if" series of questions, with no correct
answer.
|
Yes, we'll never know for sure, at least about Ohio. Florida
I don't think there should be any real historical doubt about
since it was so blatant. There is doubt expressed about it at
the moment though, of course. |
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Rumpelstiltskin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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|
On 1 Jul 2005 06:06:03 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 14:20:24 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
Yabut, you're paranoid on the subject.
Hey the facts are there. We heard quite a bit about the
corrupt exclusion lists in Florida, and about the long lines
and the harassment from the "observers" in Ohio.
Call it sour grapes if you want, but that doesn't change the
fact that those things did happen. Some of us don't forget
as quickly as some others.
No one that I'm aware of thinks any of those things were critial to the
results. There are an equal number of allegations of cemetary voting,
illegals voting and felons voting placed against Democrats. Pick yer
paranoia and enjoy it from either side.
|
That's a piddling objection to an overwhelming demonstrated
fact. |
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bob
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
| Quote: | On 1 Jul 2005 06:06:03 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 14:20:24 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
Yabut, you're paranoid on the subject.
Hey the facts are there. We heard quite a bit about the
corrupt exclusion lists in Florida, and about the long lines
and the harassment from the "observers" in Ohio.
Call it sour grapes if you want, but that doesn't change the
fact that those things did happen. Some of us don't forget
as quickly as some others.
No one that I'm aware of thinks any of those things were critial to the
results. There are an equal number of allegations of cemetary voting,
illegals voting and felons voting placed against Democrats. Pick yer
paranoia and enjoy it from either side.
That's a piddling objection to an overwhelming demonstrated
fact.
|
The fact that abuses occur, perhaps.
cheers
bob |
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Rumpelstiltskin
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:59 am Post subject:
Re: A Defeat Bred in Deceit |
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On 1 Jul 2005 12:06:58 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 1 Jul 2005 06:06:03 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 14:20:24 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
On 30 Jun 2005 07:33:15 -0700, "bob" <robob68@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Chamblee wrote:
bob at robob68@earthlink.net wrote
When Bush decided, prior to Sept. 11, to attack Iraq, he committed
himself to lies and deceit.
Whine, whine, whine. Bush WON, Jim...TWICE. Get over it.
bob
Bush won, and the U.S. lost, and continues to lose.
In your highly partisan and nearsighted opinion.
Getting to be a majority opinion, finally. It sure took long
enough. I'm still not sure Bush really won either: first Florida,
the Ohio. He may have won the vote count in Ohio, but
that doesn't account for those discouraged to vote by long
lines and by "observers" in Ohio, and he obviously would
never have won in Florida except for the selective
disenfranchisement, even ignoring the other stuff.
Yabut, you're paranoid on the subject.
Hey the facts are there. We heard quite a bit about the
corrupt exclusion lists in Florida, and about the long lines
and the harassment from the "observers" in Ohio.
Call it sour grapes if you want, but that doesn't change the
fact that those things did happen. Some of us don't forget
as quickly as some others.
No one that I'm aware of thinks any of those things were critial to the
results. There are an equal number of allegations of cemetary voting,
illegals voting and felons voting placed against Democrats. Pick yer
paranoia and enjoy it from either side.
That's a piddling objection to an overwhelming demonstrated
fact.
The fact that abuses occur, perhaps.
|
Well of course the denial of franchise to many thousands of people
was not just your run-of-the-mill abuse. Daly's Chicago was maybe
of as great magnitude, if you want a counterexample concerning
something that you have a right to bitch about.
Today's Tom Tomorrow cartoon reminded me a lot of what goes
on politically in this newsgroup. You could easily construct
something similar on another issue that reversed the political rôles
if you wanted:
she: There's a memo by an FBI agent who WITNESSED
detainees being tortured at Guantanamo ...
black suit: No there's not.
she: Beg Pardon?
black suit: You can't believe everything you read. Do you KNOW
this so-called FBI agent? Did you watch him TYPE
this alleged memo? Did you examine the KERNING?
gray suit: Maybe the lying liberal media made the whole thing
UP. Did you ever think of THAT?
black suit: How can you be sure we really even HAVE a prison
camp at Guantanamo? Maybe it's all a HOAX
staged by Bush-hating LIBERAL ELITISTS.
gray suit: Why would there be a US military installation on
Cuban soil? It makes absolutely no sense.
For that matter, how do you know you can trust
your OWN SENSES? Maybe everything you
perceive as REALITY is nothing more than a
GRAND ILLUSION.
black suit: Maybe we're not REALLY standing here talking
to you.
she: I should be so lucky, Look .. just answer one
question for me. How can you be so sure that
there WASN'T any torture at Guantanamo?
gray suit: Well, DUH .. because the president SAID so
of course.
black suit: Not to mention all the right-wing BLOGGERS.
she: I'm going home now.
gray suit: Are you sure you have a home? Maybe
someone has altered your MEMORY. Maybe ..
she: <sigh>
http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=19271
I should have changed that last comment to <G> just for you,
but the substitution didn't really work. <G>
Doesn't it sound a heap like a lot of what goes on in this
newsgroup? |
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