| Author |
Message |
Jerry Okamura
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:
Re: Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
<emily@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dap5c197nguv9ms4hpnmpab0scdgic0joh@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:55:02 GMT, "Jerry Okamura"
okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
emily@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:svc5c1pbn3v45uukjh9mg3celi24ojcc7i@4ax.com...
On 29 Jun 2005 06:53:12 -0700, "Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
The protests against the Vietnam war had teach-ins that criticized US
foreign policy in a somewhat consistent way. Current criticism is
centered around previous US efforts to subvert democracy in MidEast
causing the rise of Islamists (people who believe in theocratic rule).
What democracy exists in the Middle East for us to subvert? Is there
another democracy besides Israel?
Since I have a relative being called up for Iraq duty, I would like see
the troops brought home, but I fear that Islamist rule in Iraq is not
in the interests of the people of Iraq, or the world as a whole.
I would have preferred they'd never gone. Do you seriously believe
that after we leave, whenever that is, that our idea of democracy is
going to persist in Iraq? Most of the Iraqis are Muslims. Muslims
believe in theocratic rule. They have no law other than Islam.
So, let me see. You think it is okay for a leader of a country to kill,
arrest, torture his own people, while we debate the need to go to war or
not
to go to war with that country? So, we should not have gone to war in
Yugoslavia to "end" the suffering of the muslims in that country? As for
whether democracy will work or will not work, one thing I am certain of,
it
will not work if the people do not have a chance at tyring out this
concept
called "democracy". Time will be the proof of whether they will succeed
or
not.
I think we should refrain from invading countries which haven't
killed, arrested, or tortured us. I think we have an abysmal record
of propping up, or selecting, or aiding and abetting, or maneuvering
into power various dictators/leaders because we thought it was in our
best interests, only to find out that we were once again wrong. You
are aware that we treated Saddam like our good buddy when he was
fighting Iran, aren't you?
|
So, that would mean you were against the War of Indepence, the Civil War,
the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the invasion of Haiti more than once, the
invasion of Panama, the invasion of Greneda, Somalia, Lebanon, Yugoslavia,
the first Gulf War (those are ones that come to mind that do not fit your
description).
| Quote: |
And even if I thought it was a good idea to police the whole world,
where would we get the troops to invade the countless countries where
people are seriously mistreated by their leaders? And the money?
You do it one country at a time, when you have the ability to accomplish the |
goal. And who knows, after a couple of more countries that you have taken
action against, the others may decide to reform their ways, and you won't
have to go to war with them. That is after all, what this movement toward
demcracy is all about, and so far some countries seem to have gotten the
message, and think about what Libya did recently...would they have done that
if we had not gone to war in Iraq?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rita
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:04 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:22:48 -0400, Oldie69@webtv.net (Olly Mensch) wrote:
| Quote: | Connie - I agree with your thoughts about the dreadful sixties; I raised
two sons, who were in their teens then, through that period - - would
nhot want to have to do that again!!!!
Olly
|
What kind of problems did you have? I didn't experience problems
with any of my 8 kids -- no drugs, rebellion, or anything of that
nature. They all were busy in school and in music and held part-
time jobs. Oh, the boys let their hair grow a bit in the Beatles
look, but I remember my family taking issue with the way I dressed
back in the Bobby Sox days. I never sweat the small stuff with my
kids. And perhaps because of this, there was no "big stuff" to
be concerned about. They didn't see their parents as their enemy.
We were there to help them along their way to self-sufficiency not
to comment on or object to harmless teen stuff, such as their
clothing or music. I do believe it helped that they were not
indulged with material things and had to work for extras. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:27:32 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:38:48 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:40:18 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:33:16 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:30:41 GMT, Rumpelstiltskin
PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 07:17:23 -0700, "Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area"
GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
Why would we want protests from students still in college? They
haven't the maturity or experience to know much of anything and they
proved that in the 60's and 70's. Probably the poorest way to change
the opinion of the general public is through protests and
demonstrations. They turn far more people against whatever the protest
is for. We are still getting repercussions in our society from the
60's chaos.
They're the age group that's going to get killed.
Indeed. As I learned from one of my sons, when you draw No. 35
in the draft for the VietNam war it tends to focus your interest
on what the hell that war is all about.
Ah, yes. Feb 2. That was a good day. Conceived in early May.
Wanna tell us the hour :-)
BTW, if a person has your birthdate and he knows what county you
were born in, he can get your SS#. Just a thought.
Oooops ! I meant to type Feb 4.
Either way, you have left me cold on this one. My son was
born in November.
|
November 2, was # 34.
I was wrong earlier. May 7 was #35
http://lib.stat.cmu.edu/DASL/Datafiles/DraftLottery.html
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rita
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:54:19 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:27:32 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:38:48 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:40:18 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:33:16 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:30:41 GMT, Rumpelstiltskin
PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 07:17:23 -0700, "Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area"
GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
Why would we want protests from students still in college? They
haven't the maturity or experience to know much of anything and they
proved that in the 60's and 70's. Probably the poorest way to change
the opinion of the general public is through protests and
demonstrations. They turn far more people against whatever the protest
is for. We are still getting repercussions in our society from the
60's chaos.
They're the age group that's going to get killed.
Indeed. As I learned from one of my sons, when you draw No. 35
in the draft for the VietNam war it tends to focus your interest
on what the hell that war is all about.
Ah, yes. Feb 2. That was a good day. Conceived in early May.
Wanna tell us the hour :-)
BTW, if a person has your birthdate and he knows what county you
were born in, he can get your SS#. Just a thought.
Oooops ! I meant to type Feb 4.
Either way, you have left me cold on this one. My son was
born in November.
November 2, was # 34.
I was wrong earlier. May 7 was #35
http://lib.stat.cmu.edu/DASL/Datafiles/DraftLottery.html
|
There were several draft lotteries, Gary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:56:51 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:54:19 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:27:32 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:38:48 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:40:18 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:33:16 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:30:41 GMT, Rumpelstiltskin
PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 07:17:23 -0700, "Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area"
GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
Why would we want protests from students still in college? They
haven't the maturity or experience to know much of anything and they
proved that in the 60's and 70's. Probably the poorest way to change
the opinion of the general public is through protests and
demonstrations. They turn far more people against whatever the protest
is for. We are still getting repercussions in our society from the
60's chaos.
They're the age group that's going to get killed.
Indeed. As I learned from one of my sons, when you draw No. 35
in the draft for the VietNam war it tends to focus your interest
on what the hell that war is all about.
Ah, yes. Feb 2. That was a good day. Conceived in early May.
Wanna tell us the hour :-)
BTW, if a person has your birthdate and he knows what county you
were born in, he can get your SS#. Just a thought.
Oooops ! I meant to type Feb 4.
Either way, you have left me cold on this one. My son was
born in November.
November 2, was # 34.
I was wrong earlier. May 7 was #35
http://lib.stat.cmu.edu/DASL/Datafiles/DraftLottery.html
There were several draft lotteries, Gary.
|
Maybe so, but that's the one that everbody I knew was concerned with.
After that the low numbers continued dodging the draft ala Bush and
Clinton and the high numbers got on with their lives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:56:51 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:54:19 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
Either way, you have left me cold on this one. My son was
born in November.
November 2, was # 34.
I was wrong earlier. May 7 was #35
http://lib.stat.cmu.edu/DASL/Datafiles/DraftLottery.html
There were several draft lotteries, Gary.
|
You are right. How does 11-21-1951 sound ? That must have been
your first. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Olly Mensch
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
Connie - I agree with your thoughts about the dreadful sixties; I raised
two sons, who were in their teens then, through that period - - would
nhot want to have to do that again!!!!
Olly |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:03:51 -0400, Thumper <jaylsmith@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:08:38 GMT, Jean Smith <gotermite@yahoo.com
wrote:
In article <svc5c1pbn3v45uukjh9mg3celi24ojcc7i@4ax.com>,
emily@nospam.com wrote:
What democracy exists in the Middle East for us to subvert? Is there
another democracy besides Israel?
Palestine and Yemen. Egypt making s come back? Iran has elected a
conservative. Afghanistan.
Where is the country of Palestine these days?
Thumper
|
It's the land we know of as Israel. Actually Palestine is the
ancient homeland of the Philistines, who were there when the
Israelites stole it from them the first time around 2,800 years ago.
And some people think the American Indian had a raw deal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rita
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:38:48 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:40:18 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:33:16 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:30:41 GMT, Rumpelstiltskin
PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 07:17:23 -0700, "Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area"
GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
Why would we want protests from students still in college? They
haven't the maturity or experience to know much of anything and they
proved that in the 60's and 70's. Probably the poorest way to change
the opinion of the general public is through protests and
demonstrations. They turn far more people against whatever the protest
is for. We are still getting repercussions in our society from the
60's chaos.
They're the age group that's going to get killed.
Indeed. As I learned from one of my sons, when you draw No. 35
in the draft for the VietNam war it tends to focus your interest
on what the hell that war is all about.
Ah, yes. Feb 2. That was a good day. Conceived in early May.
Wanna tell us the hour :-)
BTW, if a person has your birthdate and he knows what county you
were born in, he can get your SS#. Just a thought.
Oooops ! I meant to type Feb 4.
|
Either way, you have left me cold on this one. My son was
born in November. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Andy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:05 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
Andy writes:
A good part of those 49% were not so much anti-Bush
as from people who honestly believed that John Kerry was the
better candidate.
A voter would be crazy to vote for just any dufus for no more
reason than he didn't like George Bush....
An most of those 49% were well-informed, educated,
Americans who seriously consider the issues and don't let
personal prejudice against a single man guide their decision
about who should can take a leadership position in America.
Or,,,,, maybe I am wrong....
Andy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thumper
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:06 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:08:38 GMT, Jean Smith <gotermite@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | In article <svc5c1pbn3v45uukjh9mg3celi24ojcc7i@4ax.com>,
emily@nospam.com wrote:
What democracy exists in the Middle East for us to subvert? Is there
another democracy besides Israel?
Palestine and Yemen. Egypt making s come back? Iran has elected a
conservative. Afghanistan.
|
Where is the country of Palestine these days?
Thumper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jean Smith
Guest
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:06 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:33:16 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:30:41 GMT, Rumpelstiltskin
PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 07:17:23 -0700, "Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area"
GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
Why would we want protests from students still in college? They
haven't the maturity or experience to know much of anything and they
proved that in the 60's and 70's. Probably the poorest way to change
the opinion of the general public is through protests and
demonstrations. They turn far more people against whatever the protest
is for. We are still getting repercussions in our society from the
60's chaos.
They're the age group that's going to get killed.
Indeed. As I learned from one of my sons, when you draw No. 35
in the draft for the VietNam war it tends to focus your interest
on what the hell that war is all about.
|
Ah, yes. Feb 2. That was a good day. Conceived in early May.
Wanna tell us the hour :-)
BTW, if a person has your birthdate and he knows what county you
were born in, he can get your SS#. Just a thought. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:06 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:40:18 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:33:16 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:30:41 GMT, Rumpelstiltskin
PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@nowhere.net> wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 07:17:23 -0700, "Poppy - San Francisco Bay Area"
GoldenStatePoppy@aol.com> wrote:
Why would we want protests from students still in college? They
haven't the maturity or experience to know much of anything and they
proved that in the 60's and 70's. Probably the poorest way to change
the opinion of the general public is through protests and
demonstrations. They turn far more people against whatever the protest
is for. We are still getting repercussions in our society from the
60's chaos.
They're the age group that's going to get killed.
Indeed. As I learned from one of my sons, when you draw No. 35
in the draft for the VietNam war it tends to focus your interest
on what the hell that war is all about.
Ah, yes. Feb 2. That was a good day. Conceived in early May.
Wanna tell us the hour :-)
BTW, if a person has your birthdate and he knows what county you
were born in, he can get your SS#. Just a thought.
|
Oooops ! I meant to type Feb 4. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:19 am Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:26:22 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:54:19 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote:
BTW, if a person has your birthdate and he knows what county you
were born in, he can get your SS#. Just a thought.
And in case that is true, that is why I won't tell you my son's
exact birth date. You could figure out where he was born from something
else I had written along the line, and look up his SS#.
|
Which is the reason I No-Archive my posts. I'm of the opinon
that we give out far more than we realize. Nothing that in itself is
anything, but when taken together.....
| Quote: | Which could
unlock his enormous bank account to you and more. Not that I don't
trust you, Gary, not to do such nefarious things, but one can't be too
safe these days, can one?
|
I wouldn't trust anyone on usenet with that. In your son's case,
I would have to know where he was born, which I don't. And also what
his surname is. Which I don't.
It's just not wise to give out too much. For instance, if you
had been born two years earlier, and if I knew your maiden name,
what county you were born in, I could tap into your SS account,
because with a little trouble and using the census, I (or anyone)
could probably find your mothers maiden name. Of course, I
wouldn't . I'm not partial to jail. But many crazies would. I
wish they would crack down on identity theft. It's something that
anyone of us could become victimized by.
I ran into a situation the other day that gave me pause. On my new
credit card, I was asked to furnish a surname for future
verification. My first impulse was to give my mothers. Then I
remembered it is used by the SS people. If someone at the credit
card company put those two together, with everything else they have
on me, what problems they could cause. I made up a fictional
name, which I hope I'm never asked for.
For instance I never even give my zip code out on the net. When I
sign up for weather reports, I give them "somebody's" zip, but not
mine. I figure the town down the road will have the same weather
that we will :-) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in