| Author |
Message |
Gary James
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
Why no dissent ? |
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This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"....Where would the leaders of campus protest come from? For if they
are less likely, given the rise of neoconservatism, to come from ranks
of activist Jews, it is even more implausible to imagine them emerging
from the remains of the WASP establishment, whose children are not the
academic and social leaders on the nation’s elite campuses. It is
perhaps only slightly more likely to come from the new Asian immigrant
groups, who are generally still focused on professional advancement or
purely ethnic concerns. And only the wooliest of neo-Marxist romantics
can see it emerging from the poor or working classes...."
http://www.amconmag.com/2005_07_04/article.html
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Jerry Okamura
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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"rick++" <rick303@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120051640.433268.116590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | What until the necessary draft returns.
Otherwise college-age kids have been generally apathetic.
I consider 49% anti-Bush votes in the last two elections
fairly significant.
|
Why? As I understand the situation, regardless of who runs for President
these days, the odds are that the election will be a close one. That is
because, as things stand now, the country is pretty evenly divided between
democrats and republicans, with so-called "swing voters" representing a
small percentage of the total number who do vote. And even that small
percentage is most likely those who vote for one party or the other in most
cases. |
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Jerry Okamura
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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"Jim Kooperford" <jk2479@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D9xwe.315278$eh1.116130@fe07.news.easynews.com...
| Quote: |
emily@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:oq55c15od3hn8hftedtfgil19k6o437pmh@4ax.com...
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:48:47 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
Emily
The main reason is that today we have nothing more than a bunch of
frightened cowards, afraid to stand up for what they believe. We have
people
screaming that the flag amendment violates their 1st amendment rights yet
they are too afraid to burn one, they do their screaming on the internet
hidden by a phony name and are afraid to write letters to their
representatives for fear of being confronted by some sinister force. We
have
a population that falls for the politicians favorite weapon, divide and
conquer and thus fall into pissing matches with each other over nothing
more
than the fact one appears to be a democrat while the other appears to be a
republican. The politicians laugh all the way to the bank while patting
each
other on the back for what a brilliant fund raising maneuver the latest
divisive issue they came up with turned out to be.
I am not so sure that "we" do not write to our representatives. With the |
advent of email, I certainly do that a lot more than when I had to sit down
and write what I had to say, edit it (all which took some effort since I
used a typewriter, and needed to do that more than once), then take the time
to put it in an envelope and mail it. Today, all you need to do (for better
or worse) is the sound off using our email capability. It would be
intereesting to know what the volume of messages that our representatives
get today vs. say thirty years ago (excluding the bulk mailings)..
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Jerry Okamura
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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"Gary James" <gnjames43@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6q75c1tsvb9bkflsejc0nlrkm0ag2bg1gf@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:47:40 -0400, emily@nospam.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:48:47 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
Emily
I believe you are right. But that only explains the lack of concern
about the war. What about issues in general ? Why are all the
"usual suspects" so happy with the actions of government in general ?
Could it be that they feel they are now directing the events ?
I think all you need to do is to know who votes consistently. It ain't the |
young people. |
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Jerry Okamura
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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<emily@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3cb5c1ljkv4pis3ci244jescbqa934hks1@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:19:32 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
Emily
I believe you are right. But that only explains the lack of concern
about the war. What about issues in general ? Why are all the
"usual suspects" so happy with the actions of government in general ?
Could it be that they feel they are now directing the events ?
You'll have to tell me who mean by "usual suspects" in this context.
The best I can determine, the people who are even moderately happy
with the current administration are the far right wing wingnuts, large
corporations, diehard Republicans, and bin Laden. Did I forget
anyone?
|
And those who are not happy are the left wing wingnuts, large labor unions,
diehard democrats, but not Ben Laden, I would think he would prefer to have
anyone but Bush as President. |
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Jerry Okamura
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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<emily@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:svc5c1pbn3v45uukjh9mg3celi24ojcc7i@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On 29 Jun 2005 06:53:12 -0700, "Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
The protests against the Vietnam war had teach-ins that criticized US
foreign policy in a somewhat consistent way. Current criticism is
centered around previous US efforts to subvert democracy in MidEast
causing the rise of Islamists (people who believe in theocratic rule).
What democracy exists in the Middle East for us to subvert? Is there
another democracy besides Israel?
Since I have a relative being called up for Iraq duty, I would like see
the troops brought home, but I fear that Islamist rule in Iraq is not
in the interests of the people of Iraq, or the world as a whole.
I would have preferred they'd never gone. Do you seriously believe
that after we leave, whenever that is, that our idea of democracy is
going to persist in Iraq? Most of the Iraqis are Muslims. Muslims
believe in theocratic rule. They have no law other than Islam.
So, let me see. You think it is okay for a leader of a country to kill, |
arrest, torture his own people, while we debate the need to go to war or not
to go to war with that country? So, we should not have gone to war in
Yugoslavia to "end" the suffering of the muslims in that country? As for
whether democracy will work or will not work, one thing I am certain of, it
will not work if the people do not have a chance at tyring out this concept
called "democracy". Time will be the proof of whether they will succeed or
not. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Re: Why no dissent ? |
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:14:01 GMT, Rita <nitany_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Iraq will need that court system. I read the other day that new
prisons are being built to hold the numbers being presently
incarcerated there.
|
Well, that's something we can certainly help with, given our vast
experience in the area. I suppose we'll encourage them to adopt
mandatory minimums and three strike rules to help them fill up as many
prisons as they can build...uh, that we can build for them.
Emily |
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Ron Peterson
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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emily@nospam.com wrote:
| Quote: | On 29 Jun 2005 06:53:12 -0700, "Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com
wrote:
The protests against the Vietnam war had teach-ins that criticized US
foreign policy in a somewhat consistent way. Current criticism is
centered around previous US efforts to subvert democracy in MidEast
causing the rise of Islamists (people who believe in theocratic rule).
What democracy exists in the Middle East for us to subvert? Is there
another democracy besides Israel?
|
I was speaking about previous regimes such as when the US installed the
Shah of Iran. Israel is a theocratic society, not a democracy.
| Quote: | Since I have a relative being called up for Iraq duty, I would like see
the troops brought home, but I fear that Islamist rule in Iraq is not
in the interests of the people of Iraq, or the world as a whole.
I would have preferred they'd never gone. Do you seriously believe
that after we leave, whenever that is, that our idea of democracy is
going to persist in Iraq? Most of the Iraqis are Muslims. Muslims
believe in theocratic rule. They have no law other than Islam.
|
There are a number of secular Muslims. Turkey, for instance, has a
secular government. A number of Muslims don't believe in theocratic
rule. I have shared an apartment with an Arab Muslim (OK, it was a long
time ago). And, I have had Muslim coworkers.
| Quote: | A co-worker who is currently stationed in Iraq has been sending
information back on the development of the court system there. He sees
real progress being made.
Could you elaborate on that?
|
His latest comments are:
"Here is what I see from Baghdad:
-American soldiers and Iraqi citizens working hard everyday to
establish a democracy in a country that has never been one before and
making significant progress
-Iraqi citizens going to work everyday, risking their lives and the
lives of their families to ensure that democracy is established
-Iraqi women with a voice that is being heard throughout the country
and actively participating in jobs where they were forbidden to work
before
-A government struggling to unite religious groups yes...but trying to
work those issues out everyday and find middle ground
-An insurgency losing ground and trying to create spectacular attacks
to frighten and scare the American people to pull their sons and
daughters out of Iraq - and sometimes succeeding at scaring the
American people
-An infant Iraqi Judicial System vehemently prosecuting the insurgency
as the criminals that they are and issuing stiff penalties to third
country nationals that join in their dwindling cause
-Public works being established in areas never before in Iraq
Iraqi children, boys and girls, being educated in schools across the
nation
-A news media bored now that the Michael Jackson trial is over and
turning their focus on Iraq again for sensational stories
-American soldiers who believe in what we are doing and will tell you
again and again not to leave until the job is finished. They believe
in this cause so much that they are willing to come back for multiple
tours to complete the mission and come home victorious "
--
Ron |
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E Bet Anthony
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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Thumper wrote:
| Quote: | On 29 Jun 2005 06:53:12 -0700, "Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com
wrote:
emily@nospam.com wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:48:47 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
The protests against the Vietnam war had teach-ins that criticized US
foreign policy in a somewhat consistent way. Current criticism is
centered around previous US efforts to subvert democracy in MidEast
causing the rise of Islamists (people who believe in theocratic rule).
Since I have a relative being called up for Iraq duty, I would like see
the troops brought home, but I fear that Islamist rule in Iraq is not
in the interests of the people of Iraq, or the world as a whole.
We cannot prevent Islamic rule in Iraq. We are merely postponing the
outcome. If the Iraqis want Islamic rule they will simply wait until
we leave. We are an occupying powere. It's absurd to think that by
giving the Iraqis a chance to choose democracy, they will simply
choose it.
Thumper
A co-worker who is currently stationed in Iraq has been sending
information back on the development of the court system there. He sees
real progress being made.
|
Iraqi is choosing democracy over the previous tyrannical regime. |
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Rita
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:54:10 -0400, emily@nospam.com wrote:
| Quote: | On 29 Jun 2005 06:53:12 -0700, "Ron Peterson" <ron@shell.core.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
The protests against the Vietnam war had teach-ins that criticized US
foreign policy in a somewhat consistent way. Current criticism is
centered around previous US efforts to subvert democracy in MidEast
causing the rise of Islamists (people who believe in theocratic rule).
What democracy exists in the Middle East for us to subvert? Is there
another democracy besides Israel?
Since I have a relative being called up for Iraq duty, I would like see
the troops brought home, but I fear that Islamist rule in Iraq is not
in the interests of the people of Iraq, or the world as a whole.
I would have preferred they'd never gone. Do you seriously believe
that after we leave, whenever that is, that our idea of democracy is
going to persist in Iraq? Most of the Iraqis are Muslims. Muslims
believe in theocratic rule. They have no law other than Islam.
A co-worker who is currently stationed in Iraq has been sending
information back on the development of the court system there. He sees
real progress being made.
Could you elaborate on that?
Iraq will need that court system. I read the other day that new |
prisons are being built to hold the numbers being presently
incarcerated there. |
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| Back to top |
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Gary James
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:47:40 -0400, emily@nospam.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:48:47 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
Emily
|
I believe you are right. But that only explains the lack of concern
about the war. What about issues in general ? Why are all the
"usual suspects" so happy with the actions of government in general ?
Could it be that they feel they are now directing the events ?
| Quote: | --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"....Where would the leaders of campus protest come from? For if they
are less likely, given the rise of neoconservatism, to come from ranks
of activist Jews, it is even more implausible to imagine them emerging
from the remains of the WASP establishment, whose children are not the
academic and social leaders on the nation’s elite campuses. It is
perhaps only slightly more likely to come from the new Asian immigrant
groups, who are generally still focused on professional advancement or
purely ethnic concerns. And only the wooliest of neo-Marxist romantics
can see it emerging from the poor or working classes...."
http://www.amconmag.com/2005_07_04/article.html |
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rick++
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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|
What until the necessary draft returns.
Otherwise college-age kids have been generally apathetic.
I consider 49% anti-Bush votes in the last two elections
fairly significant. |
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| Back to top |
|
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Ron Peterson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
emily@nospam.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:48:47 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
|
The protests against the Vietnam war had teach-ins that criticized US
foreign policy in a somewhat consistent way. Current criticism is
centered around previous US efforts to subvert democracy in MidEast
causing the rise of Islamists (people who believe in theocratic rule).
Since I have a relative being called up for Iraq duty, I would like see
the troops brought home, but I fear that Islamist rule in Iraq is not
in the interests of the people of Iraq, or the world as a whole.
A co-worker who is currently stationed in Iraq has been sending
information back on the development of the court system there. He sees
real progress being made.
--
Ron |
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| Back to top |
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Ron Peterson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
|
|
emily@nospam.com wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:48:47 -0400, Gary James <gnjames43@yahoo.com
wrote:
This is a pretty good article that sums up why we will have no 1960s
style dissent over the war policies of GW Bush. ---Gary James
Hmm, the author doesn't mention what I'd consider by far the most
important reason -- we don't have a draft these days. If we did, I
suspect there'd be a lot more interest on college campuses.
|
The protests against the Vietnam war had teach-ins that criticized US
foreign policy in a somewhat consistent way. Current criticism is
centered around previous US efforts to subvert democracy in MidEast
causing the rise of Islamists (people who believe in theocratic rule).
Since I have a relative being called up for Iraq duty, I would like see
the troops brought home, but I fear that Islamist rule in Iraq is not
in the interests of the people of Iraq, or the world as a whole.
A co-worker who is currently stationed in Iraq has been sending
information back on the development of the court system there. He sees
real progress being made.
--
Ron |
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| Back to top |
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Poppy - San Francisco Bay
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject:
Re: Why no dissent ? |
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Why would we want protests from students still in college? They
haven't the maturity or experience to know much of anything and they
proved that in the 60's and 70's. Probably the poorest way to change
the opinion of the general public is through protests and
demonstrations. They turn far more people against whatever the protest
is for. We are still getting repercussions in our society from the
60's chaos. |
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